Just a quick one here as we’re pretty busy collaborating a whole load of DWM/Longhorn Tablet Videos and shots.
At the bloggers lunch yesterday I was taken aside and asked to remove the 5048 screenshots from Neowin. I expressed concern and asked why. “Because of the EULA”, hmmm so fair enough - we complied. Next, PCmag.com and Paul Thurrott were both asked to remove screenshots.
This caused a big discussion in the press room at WinHEC between myself, Steven Bink, Chris Pirillo, Paul Thurrott and others. People couldn’t believe it, nor can I personally but I sort of understand it. Simply put - 5048 sucks. One year on and look what we’ve been given and seen of Longhorn. Chris Pirillo put it nicely, “it looks like ass” and another classic - “Only Microsoft could have an OS where you have a Windows 95 icon, a Windows XP icon and a Windows Longhorn icon in the same window” referring to My Computer in 5048, I’d post a screenshot but hey, I can’t.
Interestingly we’re allowed to keep up shots we’ve taken on camera, errr?
Feel free to comment about this if you agree with Microsoft/Disagree - I’m interested in your opinions on this guys.
OK, I mdon’t understand why would they not allow you to post screens. Why to they imvite you then? Your mission is to bring information to neowin users …. kind of ironic.
That is so gay like Paul said longhorn might not turn out as good as everyone thought because 1st of all it keeps getting delayed for example beta 1 was delayed for another month. And by the looks of this build I would say 4051 and 4074 impressed me more. Another question why did they take out the sidebar to me it was the only new thing other than a theme and this new theme seems to look worse than the 4074 slate and aero theme.
I’m very dissapointed, many of us were eagerly waiting to hear something about longhorn, and if it weren’t enough that it simply sucks (really, really dissapointing) we aren’t allowed to see it either.
BTW: What happenned to todays Avalon and Imaging sessions at Winhec? At winsupersite they are removed from the sessions…i wonder if they were canceled or not?
it was particularly ugly ill admit - but the wallpaper was nice :p
Asking Neowin readers whether they think the pictures should be allowed to stay up or not, what kind fo answers do you expect?
Of course the pictures should be allowed to stay up!
5048 isn’t very pretty to look at, but if I’m reading the blogosphere correctly, then a lot of people are worried that MS isn’t bringing enough to the table with Longhorn. MS needs to get the word out to the enthusiasts at least, and they need to show something good.
i suppose i should take down the ones i have on my blog then eh? …lol, i’ll wait for a letter
I don’t exactly know what Microsoft was thinking when they told to pull the screenshots. This just means there will be a sudden influx of screenshots from people who have the leaked copy.
They always make our fans disappointed. Not because 5048 is ugly, but also the attitude to us.
I think its a good thing that they asked to remove it. Screenshots of builds like the 5048 suggests to some users as the ‘final result’ of Windows Longhorn because its a screenshot, it clear and pure. If the screenshot was from a photo on the other hand, it looks like something ‘in development’ and not complete, because complete products would be screenshotted. Therefore, this should end all those people whining about how Longhorn sucks.
well, its kinda hard to give a good opinion about this, me being a developer…I hate when people ask to say something I am working on and critize it, knowing its NOT FINISH. In the 90% of the Soft i Build m the last think i look up to its the looks or the ui. A beautiful UI its worthless if the core and the underlying layers of software are not solid so, all i will say is, wait til beta 2 and then cry about the UI.Until that….lets talk about core functionality
Furious,i had waited that event over 1 years,but i miss a great lot of Screenshots,why
microsoft deportment is so oddity and abhorrent!!! Fierceness disappointed!!!
Is there any place i could find out that removed Screenshots in this planet???!!!
i know why they ask for screenshots removal,
the answer is basically those screenshots are so damn traditional and totally no increase features in term of UI functionality. Try compare to those with win95, 98, ME, 2000, XP and 2003. what we could see is only the wallpaper is changing, others still the same.
i don’t know how would the longhorn final UI would be, but from what we could see in 5048… (they don’t have creativity) and maybe we would have a UI plus some aka windows XP candy
btw, wait for my operating system… i call it DOOR operating system.
well alledgely MS is claiming patents are being submitted for the screen shots and wants them pulled off.
What?. So DO the EULA say that screenshots of LH are not aloud to be reprinted but pictures of LH by camera is ok?.
Or do “real laws” just prevent pulling the camera pictures too?.
Like freedom of speech without (good) proof. “You can say it look’s bad but just don’t show it”.
Also anyone saying it’s better PR not having screenshots of LH (for what ever reason) is IMO wrong. And even IF it initially was better with no screenshots pulling them NOW makes absolutely no sens, not for MS.
It may not be fair but MS need to watch out for “the hate” plain and simple “don’t fuel the fire already burning”. This is fuel trust me.
MS hatemongers will love this, messing with freedom of the press.
Come on it’s a no-brainer bad PR.
only student who didn’t study, didn’t memorize, didn’t have creativity scared of being asked or questioned by their teacher
…
and longhorn looks like that student
It looks shit anyway, microsoft should be happy that people are even posting pictures of the horrible piece of shit
Of course it is ugly, you are at a driver conference, since when do the driver folks need a good looking testing OS?
but a good looking testing OS at least (in some point) could make those driver folks confidence & happy to write driver for that particular OS
viewing these screenshots, what i can confirm is, if they really push this longhorn into market, i am sure they would fail. they simply need more creativity, innovation…
“What?. So DO the EULA say that screenshots of LH are not aloud to be reprinted but pictures of LH by camera is ok?.”
Copyright of a picture taken with camera is the property of the photographer, no matter what you’re taking. Copyright of a screen grab from ANY application, pre-release or otherwise, is that of the software company (companies ignore this by and large for reviews of released software). It’s one of those small quirks of the law that few people know about.
You can’t patent screenshots, they’re not an invention. They’re automatically copyrighted to Microsoft though, if they created them (i.e. pressed the print screen button), but if someone else did, I don’t think Microsoft can do anything, unless they got them to sign an NDA.
hey guys, reading through all the above comments makes me understand why MS wants those screenshots out. Build 5048 is pre-beta and people are already commenting on the UI. Come on guys this is a developer preview so that the drivers and functionalities can be reviewed and work upon, its not a beauty pageant. Why don’t we stop getting so worked up and wait for the public betas instead.
This is moronic and hard to understand. There was more stuff in 4074 and ms never blinked an eyelid when screenies of that where leaked
during 4074, less people beat them, so they didn’t yell
now, many people beat them already, so they yell
I COULD NOT AGREE MORE WITH THIS — I REALLY WISH SOMEONE WOULD TELL MICROSOFT TO STOP THIS:
Chris Pirillo put it nicely, “it looks like ass” and another classic - “Only Microsoft could have an OS where you have a Windows 95 icon, a Windows XP icon and a Windows Longhorn icon in the same window” referring to My Computer in 5048, I’d post a screenshot but hey, I can’t.
We only have to wait till june 30th for beta 1? what is the big deal? but I agree with this article tho that its bs on the screenshot part. Problem i had with this build was there was not any support for the aero glass stuff! wtf is that? and the os was laggy kinda it ran fine for me, only took like minimum 150 out of my 1g of ram and my processing was 0% half the time but still had this awful lag in the os, could it be the video card driver I dont know?
the problem is : we heard longhorn will be a revolution. I have a look at build 4074, and one year later, the skin is different, the sidebar disapear, winFS no more…
One year for a wallpaper, a skin, and LESS features ????
Adding to this longhorn is more and more delayed…
With 5048, even dwm miss the shadows… It’s a bit surprising. at least 5048 can install on my laptop now (4074 can’t). Ok, they don’t just watch tv during that year….
I don’t understand why everyone is complaining so much… if you went to WinHEC you got a copy to develop drivers, not to play games, check out new features, look a pretty new themes and icons, etc. If you didn’t go to WinHEC and your complaining because you wasted a CD and a half hour to an hour of your life installing and illegal copy, I have two words for you: fresh air. Go get some! (it’s located OUTSIDE)
I agree with VJSZ. It’s a release ment for hardware developers. It does not need a great UI yet. I believe that will come in following releases, which will show an indication of the final product.
But getting websites to take down screenshots is silly
They should made more out of explaining that it is not an indication of how
the final product will look.
Dude just take cam pictures of the screen and u’ll be fine
You’re the press, and do a review, and they have no angle to prevent you from writing reviews. EULA can’t stop press reviews.
I’m not impressed one bit with build 5048, it looks like every other version of windows with a few tweaks and enhancments here and there. Granted, there are some underlaying things that have changed big time but what customers will see is just another version of Windows, with a few changes. What screenshots I did see were nothing to get excited about, nothing revolutionary or significantly different. If it weren’t for the fact that I’m a big gamer, I would of dropped Windows ages ago and gone Apple. I guess all we can do is cross our fingers and hope for something better in the coming months.
Copywright has an exclusion clause in it. Doesn’t it it states that it can be used for critisizm or education as long as you state the source or author of copywriten materials. Copywright purpose is totaly for the money hungry us of a to protect your profit. So I don’t see the point what profit are we protecting on screen shots. Or are we just abusing copywright law and insist on its validity to avoid emberasment of a sucking product. If your worst creation doesen’t put most of the croud into awe. Than what good are you as a creator. What if god when he made the first woman put a vail on it like the arabs do to hide the ugliest women on the planet. Would you have screwed her. Or just sad. Make me another and throw that one into the fire. So mesage to micro (small very small) Soft (soft in the 2 round things with a stick) burn it while you can. And make us another!
Thank god that sidebar is gone!
Now, I don’t believe that all of you are bashing about a alpha version, when it is being told that even beta1 will only have 1/3 of the final product features.
I understand that you where hoping for some more eyecandy and inovation, but if microsoft unveiled all their ideas, someone would rapidly copy it and then tell the world they invented it, and microsoft just stold the idea (probably some MAC fans).
As for the screenshot removal, well… it is a bit nonsense. But hey, they have a big company and they know what they are doing for their own sake.
And if you have checked the Avalon technology preview, you should know what to expect for the new infrastructure, where 3d, transparency, web and eyecandy meet the new API for the OS.
If you remember, WinXP is still based on the cumbersome MFC or the WindowForms. So, I think we will see a big step here.
And more to come, under the wood, just like the new TCP/IP stack (ok, maybe they steal it, but atleast it is new), new shell and alot of things that does not sparkle in our eyes.
microsoft pulling the screenshots is askin to them suing that kid mike rowe over mikerowesoft.com, the left hand knows not what the right is doing. probably most of microsoft does not care about the screenshots, given that unless they are actually mentally retarded they must realize the 5048 build has by now been leaked all across the entire globe and anybody who wanted to see it already has. however, there are some people who probably get paid far too much to dig around on the net looking for little illegal nuggets to attack, and they officially have a bug up their butts about the screenshots.
my take on it is that longhorn is getting further from being done not closer, and the fact is that to make the big pile of crap actually secure and stable they are going to have to ditch a huge amount of the nt/xp architecture, thus breaking backwards compatibility on a huge number of apps.
not only will this make longhorn a harder sell by itself, but add to that the fact that windows xp is ‘good enough’ for 90% of users, i think they are better off delaying the release until they can offer significantly more features, and winfs would be a good one to have kept in. also, the longer they delay the release the longer they give developers to gear up for the new incompatibilities in longhorn, and prepare their apps.
as far as anyone ripping off microsofts ideas, please, give me a break. the entire basis of windows is entirely stolen from the mac, anyone who dosent know this is being silly.
The patent excuse is lame. The public posting of screen shots is no more damaging than the fact that they have publically given away the OS. If you plan to file a patent about the look and feel of something, it is best to not distribute it to thousands of people first.
MAIN REASON IS DUE TO PATENT, microsoft is not creating a ui we thing, it is somewhat highly confidental and something unbelevable and cool, best than ever(than mac 0s) WAIT UNTIL BETA 2. not even in PDC you could see the real aero only at BETA 2 ONE CAN FEEL AERO
[…] onghorn version and sait that Microsoft won’t be winning anything with this. Quoting neowin.net: People couldn’t believe it, nor can I personally but I sort of understand it. Sim […]
at least they recognize it sucks
only the wallpaper interests me… finally… you realize it SUCKS!
Longhorn, what more do you expect from Microsoft? Its gonna be as good as Win XP (not good).
“Thank god that sidebar is gone!
Now, I don’t believe that all of you are bashing about a alpha version, when it is being told that even beta1 will only have 1/3 of the final product features.
I understand that you where hoping for some more eyecandy and inovation, but if microsoft unveiled all their ideas, someone would rapidly copy it and then tell the world they invented it, and microsoft just stold the idea (probably some MAC fans).
As for the screenshot removal, well… it is a bit nonsense. But hey, they have a big company and they know what they are doing for their own sake. ”
totally agreed w you.
first off that Sidebar is just a waste of Desktop, and i never liked it…. it just looks ugly….
this is an alpha release, a beta for developers guys…. why should “we” end users be wanting good screenshots when they havent even made good drivers for it….
this OS still needs more than a year of work to be done… think of how many Windows XP versions you can do in 1 n a half years lol
so plz, lets just be patient… and i hope this new version comes “uncrackable”…. for god sake… let’s stop piracy and make Longhorn worthy a bit more…
The reason that MS have asked everyone to take down screenshots is mainly due to the fact that they have a lot of patents pending on some of the technology demonstrated in 5048. I’m not familiar with american law (i’m british) but as far as I understand it, they’re keen to protect their interest in the software. With that said they also want to show the technology to people. That’s why photos are allowed, but screenshots arent. With screenshots, it becomes a lot harder to say that the technology belongs to MS and that someone else didn’t develop it first.
They banning us to post the LH screenie, so we should strike back, banned their LH back. Let the M$ pay the price.
Anyway, LH 5048 sucks, cant even install on my old celeron 1.8G.
If supporter of Microsoft like me couldn’t enjoy the view of the Longhorn expecting from the long time, he get disappointed over it. If the press is called and were allowed to take snapshots, why are they not allowing to post it? Atleast they should allow you to take post some of the snapshots if not all!
You can still find them here:
http://www.strengholt-online.nl/longhorn/index.html
I think a simple Microsoft sucks like usual would be enough.Longhorn looks nice coloured Xp and i did not seen the big surprise we all expected.I’ll stay on xp that’s for sure.
Some time ago, people were saying things like:
all alpha have sidebar, so this will be something that will be on final release.
So, they were wrong.
Microsoft has already told that only on beta2 we will see fully featured aero, so, it is clear that the screenshots (even the photos with that beautifull wallpaper) will not be even close of the final look of it.
If we want to bash microsoft, why not just bash THE TIME THEY ARE TAKING for a new OS? Really, that is the thing that makes me mad, because no Windows has no viable alternative except totally-free-but-made-of-little-pieces-that-dont-match-each-other like linux, or the monolithic-unix-with-pretty-colors like Mac.
Longhorn will be a bigger change then people think:
1. Better graphics due to Avalon and cooler effects.
2. Virtual folders
3. Better search
4. Better Open save dialogs { thumbs up }
5. metro
6. DVD burning and HD-DVD/BluRay support
7. support hard drives with flash memory
it really sucks that microsoft doesn’t allow it. im really disappointed, i mean releasing screenshots is a good way of getting people hyped up for Longhorn and a way of advertising for newbies.
Just to Joes comment:
”
Longhorn will be a bigger change then people think:
1. Better graphics due to Avalon and cooler effects.
2. Virtual folders
3. Better search
4. Better Open save dialogs { thumbs up }
5. metro
6. DVD burning and HD-DVD/BluRay support
7. support hard drives with flash memory
”
Are these really things that couldn’t just be added to XP anyway?
Actually there’s a good reason for this. Microsoft doesn’t want everyone to have easy access to the GUI until they finalize their copyrights. They failed to do this with XP Media Center and now it’s been cloned by a bunch of companies. They don’t want to make this mistake again.
What do you expect morons, it’s BETA of course it’s going to LOOK LIKE SHITE.
Stop crying about screenshots why are you crying when you are saying it looks SHIT anyway?
Maybe They just wanted to publicise the new version for a couple of weeks. After they have collected enough comments . (probably negative once) they decided to shut down all the screenshots
jinyunet
i’ve testit , i’m too much disapointedb , just by clicking on clock it hangs, if u activate the wellcome screen, is equal to the xp welcome screen , they didnt change the look !
MS couldn’t show up their heads
they themself feel shame for the Look of Longhorn!
I think its a promise for the future. Sure, the GUI isnt all that amazing (i like the caption bars and the glass effect, the taskbar is just horrid though) but im looking at some nice features:
- The new start menu, including tree-style All Programs & Search.
- That new Not-Responding Helper Alert thingy, its another step towords user-friendly to some.
- The new address bar with dropdown buttons - Looks helpful.
- The security accounts: no more hidden spyware installs ?
Just my 2 cents. For an alpha version, im seeing enough to consider this a good upgrade, just like Windows XP was (if you consider it the next home OS, after 98SE\ME .. 2000 wasnt supposed to be used at home, even though it was pretty good and stable for those matters). And as for a GUI .. Answer me this - those who hate luna’s look, have alternatives ? (Visual Styles, Windowblinds .. Im hoping MS makes the visual style format more public and less hack-dll)
Microsoft did *not* ask everybody to pull screenies. WinBeta (http://www.winbeta.org) was allowed to leave their screenshots up. (No; WinBeta has no official connection to Microsoft whatever.) In fact, there is a link to WinBeta’s rewiew of the WinHEC build on MSDN Online (http://msdn.microsoft.com). Also, it is known that the current UI that 5048 shows is far from being either code-complete or feature-complete. Microsoft, in fact, made that plain at WinHEC, and WinBeta’s review concurred with that statement. The comments about the UI at this point are, in fact, pointless. (That is likely why that Microsoft asked that the UI screenshots largely be pulled.)
One thing that is very much there, however, is the indexing (think Index Server on steroids). Remember how Apple focussed on Spotlight in the days leading up to Tiger’s launch? The new Indexing Service is Microsoft’s response to Spotlight. “Whoa; wait a minute!” I figure that lots of you are saying. “Hasn’t Index Server been around since Windows 2000?” In fact, you are right; Index Server did indeed first appear in Windows 2000 Professional. However, the Indexing Service in 5048 has literally nothing in common with Index Server except that it runs as a service. It isn’t based on Microsoft Jet (unlike Index Server), and I have literally no idea what the database engine that Microsoft is using in the Indexing Service in 5048 is based on (though it certainly is *not* based on the Yukon database engine that the Indexing Service *will* eventually use). I can, however, tell you one thing about the Indexing Service: it’s fast. VERY fast. And it certainly ties into more of the operating system than Index Server ever did. And because of that, the Indexing Service actually is more akin to Tiger’s Spotlight (or Spotlight’s predecessor, Finder) than Index Server. However, unlike Spotlight (or Finder), the Indexing Service can be used OS-wide (and, like Spotlight, and unlike Finder, can be linked into by third-party applications).
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