Hmm, wasn’t it the issue that George W. Bush dodged his duty at the National Guard? Someone who joined the Navy and then decided to not turn up would be considered cowardly, yes.

Last time I checked there were Air National Guard members who were killed in Vietnam and whose names are on the Wall. Were they cowards? I’m sure that Bush wasn’t thrilled about the idea of getting deployed, but he could have been. Here’s the bottom line: he served. Anyone who calls Bush a coward for serving is slapping all the other National Guard members in the face. I can play semantics with someone’s service all day. Let’s talk about Kerry’s service… I can’t wait until all these baby boomers are 90 years old so we can have a presidential race where someone doesn’t bring up Vietnam.

The fact that the “lefties” call Dubya a coward isn’t because he joined the national gaurd, and was stationed in the U.S. why “we” consider him a coward is because he never showed up for dutie, had time left over that he needed to make up, and was mysteriously gone a few short years after the fact. Joining the National Gaurd in a time of war isn’t cowardly, infact I would consider it smarter than signing up to be shipped off for a war you don’t believe in, and shouldn’t be fought.

“we” consider him a coward is because he never showed up for dutie, had time left over that he needed to make up, and was mysteriously gone a few short years after the fact.

I wish I would have known the military just gives out HONORABLE DISCHARGES for people who don’t show up. That would’ve made getting that GI Bill a heck of a lot easier. If only I had known!

why “we” consider him a coward is because he never showed up for dutie

Ok you can call someone not responsable for that, but a coward? Does it take a brave man to show up to duty?

I wish I would have known the military just gives out HONORABLE DISCHARGES for people who don’t show up. That would’ve made getting that GI Bill a heck of a lot easier. If only I had known!

Come on, it’s just proof of the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy™ at work!  Any accusation against Bush, no matter how ridiculous, is taken as gospel, and anything that disproves the accusation is just more evidence of a massive cover-up.

why “we” consider him a coward is because he never showed up for dutie, had time left over that he needed to make up, and was mysteriously gone a few short years after the fact.

Any proof of that?

Michael Moore is like one of those old carnival games—they look so easy to beat but you spend all day and all your dollars trying and in the end you can’t beat them. 

Moore introduced General Wesley Clarke at a rally saying that he was looking forward to a race between the “General and the Deserter.” The whole rightwing talking points crowd came out and demanded that Clarke denounce the term and as we know it set off weeks of Bush and all his surrogates denying that he was a deserter.  The Bushies went from attack to defense in a matter of exactly one news cycle and have stayed on defense to this day.  This is not an issue that works well for Bush (or Cheney - 5 deferments) so I’m not sure why GOP-types keep bringing it up.  In hindsight it would have been far better to let it slide.  As for the F911 film, he we go again… The more this film gets discussed, the more relevant it seems. 

When the film “Soul Man” was released in the 1980s, the NAACP came out immediately and slammed the film without seeing it.  The said the very premise of the film (a white kid fakes being African-American to get an otherwise unclaimed scholarship to college) was offensive.  The NAACP generated so much publicity that the film took in about 3 times what it should have INCLUDING plenty of African Americans.  Disney saw the box office numbers and rushed “Song of the South” into a re-release which was something they had told the NAACP years prior that they would not do. So how many Bush-lovers will sites like this one drive to Moore’s movie?

This is EXACTLY a victory for Moore. He repeats this BULLSHIT enought time and then some waterhead just goes and repeats it like it was a fucking fact!!!

For all of you liberals ou there who always question why we bother to come here and discuss the issues of moore, you have people like Undeserving to thank.
If everyone was smart enough to see through Moore’s bullshit, we could all go fishin’ instead.

Undeserving,

Before you start making stupid -assed comments about Bush showing up for duty, you’d might want to read up a little.

Bush has been researched to death on this issue, and by all acounts , he fufilled all of his required duties.

Also,Bush was commissioned during the war, and then was assigned to the Texas Air National Guard, which was slated for deployment for VietNam, but the DOD decided not to send them because the planes they had were being phased out.

He had every reason to think he was going to be deployed, because on the day he showed up for duty , that was the standing order. He didn’t shirk any duty by joining the A.N.G.

Also, the only choice you have as far as “picking” your unit, is that you get to pick the Branch in which you serve, unless you specifically join Special forces, Rangers, or the 82nd Airborne. Additionally, you get to pick your job. Bush picked combat pilot. (not exactly a pencil pusher)
I’d would take issue with the “leave of absence “ he applied for and received to work on a political campaign. I think he should have just worked around his duty schedule, rather than take time off.

The biggest flaw in the “Dubya went AWOL” theory is simply that the Air National Guard states that he did indeed fulfill his duties, and they are the final word on the matter. The second biggest is that nobody has been able to demonstrate that Bush was anyplace besides exactly where he was supposed to be.

Link 1 and Link 2.

That’s right tequila, because, as we all know, complex events can be broken down into cute black-and-white cartoons. Looking at a situation from only one perspective never did anybody any good, mate.

So Lee.. Since you’ve proven that you can post threads not dealing with Michael Moore directly, are you willing to do one on this issue yet? False terrorist attack numbers.

I know you covered it poorly on your other site - that the whole thing was just a mistake. But I’d like to hear your opinion and the opinion of those on this site who quoted the original, incorrect results of the study to back up their arguments.

Moore changes a caption and you guys lose it. Bush et al provide tremendously flawed study results to justify war and you’re cool with it??

I sort of see your point, but I’m not sure submarine duty is the best analogy.

Nevermind the fact that Vietnam overlapped with the cold war--volunteering for any duty on a submersible fission reactor carrying tactical missiles… Yikes!  Courage?  Yep.

Vietnam didn’t have a Navy to speak of, so there was practically no risk in vounteering for sub duty.

Lee you know exactly SHIT about warfare. You think its all fought “Plane vs Plane”, “Sub vs. Sub”, “Soldier vs. Soldier”, “Helicopter vs. Helicopter”? Of course it isn’t. They had a role to play and as part of the team they were absolutly vital. Swifty911 is right.....service on a submersible fission reactor carrying tactical missles takes either “Gomer Pyle” obliviousness or some balls. Bad analogy.

As far as Bush serving...I dont think he did in the most transparent fashon but I dont think it matters at this point. It isnt like we still need to defend this guys honor or anything....he is an incompantant baffoon that has failed at about every major endevor he has embarked upon. He has ruined our reputation and credibility around the world and is undeserving of a second term.

We know he gives a minimal hoot about the troops; slashing veterans benefits, sending them into a war with no FACTUAL justification, apparently sending them there with no body armor (why didn’t anyone point out that if they needed armor they shouldnt have been sent in the first damn place without the supplies they needed?), not being straight with them as to when they would be coming home, telling them “Mission Accomplished” when...well you know. He says he cares about the troops but you know what....doing is the best way of saying. This guy is all hard rhetoric but not alot of hard, constructive action. As far as being a coward...I dont know. I wouldnt want to be in a fox hole with him though. I would go so far as to say though that he used the fact that his dad was a congressman to his advantage in reguards to his military service.

Lee you know exactly SHIT about warfare. You think its all fought “Plane vs Plane”, “Sub vs. Sub”, “Soldier vs. Soldier”, “Helicopter vs. Helicopter”? Of course it isn’t. They had a role to play and as part of the team they were absolutly vital.

Diggla, it would seem that you know exactly SHIT when it comes to addressing a hypothetical question.

Swifty911 is right.....service on a submersible fission reactor carrying tactical missles takes either “Gomer Pyle” obliviousness or some balls. Bad analogy.

Lee makes a valid point,even in the danger of the Submarine service. That point ( I will spell it out for you and Swifty, since I’m smart ) is;

The chaces of being killed in combat by the NVA during the Vietnam conflict was next to zero. If someone wanted to serve in a great capacity for thier country, but didn’t feel like taking the chance of getting captured and tortured, the Sub Service is a very honorable way to do it.

That being said, can the same be said for Air National guard Pilots? I’d say yes. Both are very honorable ways to serve while being slightly less dangerous than an infantry position.

As far as Bush serving...I dont think he did in the most transparent fashon(fashion) but I dont think it matters at this point.

Of course it’s the left that keeps bringing this non story up.

It isnt like we still need to defend this guys honor or anything....

Since when have you ever defended his honor?

he is an incompantant(incompetent) baffoon(buffoon) that has failed at about every major endevor(endeavor) he has embarked upon.

Yes, I agree. Most people who become President will be remembered as people who never accomplished anything.

He has ruined our reputation and credibility around the world and is undeserving of a second term.

Our reputation is very bad in France and Germany indeed. However much of this is due to the fact that their Govt’s tried to stop us from going to war in Iraq, which would expose the illegal oil deals they had been making.

We know he gives a minimal hoot about the troops;
That’s a lie.

slashing veterans benefits,

Also a lie.

sending them into a war with no FACTUAL justification,
If you want to tell the UN, France, The UK, Germany, Isreal, Russia, and about 30 other countries who SAID it was factual before the war the Saddam had WMD’s, then I guess you’ll have to take it up with them.

OH, Clinton, Kerry, Gore, Hillary, too

apparently sending them there with no body armor

The combat forces HAD body Armor. The rear echelon folks didn’t. However, I wonder how General Washington must have struggled with the decision to send his troops in without BODY Armor!!!

(why didn’t anyone point out that if they needed armor they shouldnt have been sent in the first damn place without the supplies they needed?),

To be accurate, Bush sent Clinton’s army to war. You can blame him for slashing defense funding.

not being straight with them as to when they would be coming home,

Exentions are common in wartime. Troops don’t like it, but it’s in their contracts.

telling them “Mission Accomplished” when...well you know.
As that ship was heading home after doing everything the country asked of them, how is it innapropriate to tell them “Mission accomplished”? THEY DID ACCOMPLISH THEIR MISSION!!!! Then , they go to go home!!!!!!!!

He says he cares about the troops but you know what....doing is the best way of saying. This guy is all hard rhetoric but not alot of hard, constructive action.
WHOA!!!One minute you’re bitching about the cost of this war and the next you’re saying Bush isn’t taking action.
Other than funding the crap out of this, what else would you have him do? Grab a rifle???

As far as being a coward...I dont know. I wouldnt want to be in a fox hole with him though.
Me neither, he was a pilot.

I would go so far as to say though that he used the fact that his dad was a congressman to his advantage in reguards(regards) to his military service.

Oh Brother!!! I’d like to see you try to prove that.

A coward is anyone who sends another to fight his battles for him.  GWB is exactly a coward for sending this country’s children to die so that he and his rich, white, male friends (all conveniently connected with the defense and oil industries) can become richer because the Arabs wouldn’t cave in to their oily dealings.  It is well known that he was AWOL when his only duty was “learning to fly.” He also refuses to make public his (complete) military records even after publicly stating he would on Meet the Press.  Why the need for so much secrecy, George?

A coward is anyone who sends another to fight his battles for him.

Gina, do you have children?  If you don’t, please, get yourself sterilized.  And if you do, kill them tonight, and spare them the abject mistery of growing up with a mother as monumentally ignorant as you are.

Swifty911 is right.....service on a submersible fission reactor carrying tactical missles takes either “Gomer Pyle” obliviousness or some balls.

Diggla, unlike you I was actually in the Navy, so I know of what I speak.  But the point you so woefully miss (I know you’re an ignorant leftie, but please try and keep up) is that if someone wanted to avoid getting shot at by Charlie in the jungle, the submarine service is a pretty good fucking place to do so.  So because Bush decided that he didn’t want to go and fight in Vietnam he joined the TANG.  This is, according to his detractors, cowardly.  Now, it is a fact that in the TANG there was the possibility of deployment to Vietnam.  So, if joining a unit that could possibly deploy to Vietnam is cowardly, what would you consider someone who joined the submarine service during that same time period?

Idiot.  No wonder you’re a Moore fan.

A coward is anyone who sends another to fight his battles for him.

Uh,Oh. You just called FDR a coward Gina.

GWB is exactly a coward for sending this country’s children to die so that he and his rich, white, male friends (all conveniently connected with the defense and oil industries) can become richer because the Arabs wouldn’t cave in to their oily dealings.

That’s quite possibly the worst explaination for the war I’ve ever heard. Ever, Ever, Ever.

It is well known that he was AWOL when his only duty was “learning to fly.”

No,My little waterheaded friend, it is an often repeated lie. You have been manipulated .

Why the need for so much secrecy, George?

Um,.......young lady........The Presdient doesn’t post here. Sorry to have to be the one to tell you. Now tighten your helmet and look both ways before you cross the street okay, we don’t want you to get squished by the short bus when it comes to pick you up for school.

Uh oh .....looks like the “pick um apart gang” is back in town. Well alrighty.
Paratrooper you think you zinged me here but you really didnt. You did however correct my horrendous spelling errors I made and for that I thank you. You point for point break down of what I had to say was just a bunch or righty dribble though. Perhaps ill respond to all of it in a bit. You arent right though.

And Seaman Lee....good for you! Glad you served...very proud of ya. I didn’t miss any point at all.....but active duty Sub work is a fuck of alot different than National Guard Pilot work! Yes being all underwater in a sub would likely be safer than Jungle Infantry, But there is no comparison in Active Duty ANYTHING and Air National Guard ANYTHING. That was my point. I wouldn’t consider someone who was on Sub Duty to be a coward because they are Active Duty doing it every damn day. Guard work is like a part time weekend job pretty much. Where it technically qualifies as “Military Service”, the Guard back then was hardly the place to go when you were serious about making a significant contribution to the war effort during Vietnam. I dont knock the guy for using power and influence to get him out of combat. He was a boy of privilage and that is how those people get to live. But you dont have to tout this guy as some war hero or something. He may have pulled off a Honerable Discharge but if anyone else would have done it like that, they would have been in serious trouble. And I mean for christs sake.....he cant produce even 1....not even 1 person who served with him in Alabama. He should just come clean with it for real. We would all understand.

“My question is this:  would someone who joined the Navy and volunteered for submarine duty during the Vietnam war also meet your definition of cowardice and dodging?”

Lee, I think you’re asking the wrong crowd, at least by my account.  I don’t consider George W. Bush’s actions cowardly.  Nor do I consider someone fleeing to Canada to dodge the draft cowardly, if they cannot morally bring themselves to kill another human being.  I think it’s hypocritical for one to support a war and then use they’re position to avoid fighting it.  But if George W. couldn’t bring himself to personally kill a fellow human being, I’d actually have more respect for him.

And Seaman Lee....good for you! Glad you served...very proud of ya.

But wait, I thought he knew exactly shit about warfare?

Would this be you forced to admit you were DEAD FUCKING WRONG about him?

:O <- that’s my shocked and surprised face.  Diggla, you are a very special boy.

But wait, I thought he knew exactly shit about warfare?

From the way he posed his question it looked that way yes. First he asked if serving in a submarine was cowardice because the Vietnamese didnt have a Navy, implying that you have to have another Sub attacking or something to be in danger when in a Sub. Comparing this 6 month duty with “1 weekend a month, 2 weeks a year” is a fucking laugh riot and a terrible analogy. I got his point, and it was still a terrible analogy. If he was in the Navy and said this, this makes him about a complete dipshit and a terrible analogist. And just because he was in the Navy dosent mean that he knows shit about warfare either. You probaly dont learn a good deal about that stirring big pots of beans or driving a bus around base or whatever it was he did.

I know you are getting at the whole thing where you get all defensive because people come on here with preconcieved notions about the right and judge all of you “O’Rilley lovers” or “Rush Humpers” but I dont do that. I read your little run down on yourself there and was pleased to see a thinking (but wrong) person there...not just some right wing extremist. I made my comments based solely on what I got from the question he posed, and I have no problem admitting when I am wrong or got or zinged or whatever...its part of why we debate shit like this for. And as for your shocked & suprised face....maybe you should add some “Smileys” to the setup here...im sure we would have fun with that.

That was a lot of words to say “Yes, I was wrong, and I shouldn’t have accused him before I found out what his service status is/was.”

Are you incapable of simply admitting an error?

Why is it that only one person has actually answered the question *without changing the subject*?

That was a lot of words to say “Yes, I was wrong, and I shouldn’t have accused him before I found out what his service status is/was.”

Are you incapable of simply admitting an error?

JimK you are smarter and have better points to debate me on than this. I said by the way he posed his question, it didnt appear that he had a grasp of the topic. He has not come back and demonstrated a good working knowledge of it either so it stands. I also said in the post

"And just because he was in the Navy dosent mean that he knows shit about warfare either."

followed by my personal stab at Lee (albeit not fair but just a shot to antagonize)

“ You probaly dont learn a good deal about that stirring big pots of beans or driving a bus around base or whatever it was he did.” (waves and flips bird at Lee)

I accused him because he didnt demonstrate it, his being in the Navy does not change this. I didn’t prejudge or steroetype or piegon hole him......I he didnt know shit because he didnt demonstrate that he did. Whats so hard about that?

Are you simply incapable of admitting you are barking up the wrong tree with the wrong shit?

Wow.  You are physically incapable of admitting you were wrong about one of us.

Pathetic.  And juvenile.

Paratrooper has completely changed my political perspective. The once powerful arguments of liberal politicians, political analysts, and activists have been reduced to ruin by simply restating them in a close ended question, followed with a supervenient, “No. That is a lie.”
Thank you… I’m sure i’ll enjoy my new idealogy, so long as liberals don’t discover this amazing method.

This starts out for McLarenF1, because s/he (pardon, i don’t know your gender) asked for the proof to my comment, so here is some.

But lets start with a quote first, shall we?

“I think that people need to be held responsible for the actions they take in life. I think that’s part of the need for a cultural change. We need to say that each of us needs to be responsible for what we do.” George W. Bush JR.

First off, getting into the Texas Air National Gaurd at the time was VERY difficult to do, and usually required someone higher up to pull strings for you, and Bush got it. Maybe daddy pulled a few strings there? Bush didn’t show up for his last two years of service, and the fact that Dubya wasn’t punished for this, is also a good sign of some favortism.

From about June 1970 to May of ‘71 Bush showed up for everything he was supposed to, and met all goal, but a short time after (may ‘72) Bush was credit with only an additional 22 days of flight schooling (36 days short) After that Bush never flew again, weather it be to work on a Republican Campaign trail, or the fact that he was at one time suspended and grounded for substance abuse. All that his Lt. Col., William D. Harris Jr said was he “cleared this base.”

I know nothing of Lt. Col.’s record, nor will I pretend to, but this wasn’t the first, and certainly wasn’t the last that the Armed Forces lied.

Sorry it took me so long to reply, I just got off of work.

Since all the liberals here are making a point of calling Bush a coward for joining the TANG, I would like to point out that during Vietnam we were still in the middle of a cold war with the Soviet Union and in combat with forces supported by them.  The likleyhood of an attack by the Soviets on the United States was not to be discounted.  Bush joined the TANG well knowing that he might be called upon to defend his homeland from Soviet bombers. (yes, I know everyone had missiles, but after the initial missile attack bombers would have most likely tried to finish us off) Also most of the people who are accusing Bush of cowerdice now are the some ones who, when a new draft bill was introduced, were saying stuff like “screw America, I’m moving to Canada”.  (Maybe not here but I’ve seen it on other forums)

I know, I can’t spell.

So, was Bill Clinton a coward during Vietnam?

To answer the topic question, my view is that any military service, even if in a ‘guaranteed non-combat’ role, is not cowardly.

Does anyone here support a draft? Seems to me that notions of honor and cowardice become convuluted when there is a monetary incentive.

Diggla....Shut. The FUCK. Up.

But there is no comparison in Active Duty ANYTHING and Air National Guard ANYTHING.

Really?!  I guess that nine months of active reserve time that I served in Iraq last year, is NOTHING compared to all those guys who are regularly active.  Those active guys sitting in the states or Europe have it REAL hard (oh, wait, I was active once, as well...)

Comparing this 6 month duty with “1 weekend a month, 2 weeks a year” is a fucking laugh riot and a terrible analogy

1 weekend and 2 weeks...because we NEVER get mobilized, right?

Oh, yeah…

And I mean for christs sake.....he cant produce even 1....not even 1 person who served with him in Alabama.

I guess this is sort of like how I’ve been part of a Reserve unit since 01 (of only 110 personnel), and about half the people STILL don’t know my name.  Granted the people I work with don’t have the excuse of thirty years of memory loss to excuse them.

And…

And just because he was in the Navy dosent mean that he knows shit about warfare either. You probaly dont learn a good deal about that stirring big pots of beans or driving a bus around base or whatever it was he did.

And being in the Navy doesn’t mean you DON’T know shirt about warfare.  I don’t know about Lee, but I guess I learned nothing about warfare, even though I served on the ground, in Iraq, humping my own weapons and gear around the desert, getting shot at.  But we’re just po, ignent sailors, eh?

You have NO concept of the military, nor what it means to serve. Your comments are an insult to anyone who has ever worn the uniform.  Refrain from using us as tools to forward your unwanted political agenda, since you can’t even do it well.

Absolutely right Wooga

To answer the topic question, my view is that any military service, even if in a ‘guaranteed non-combat’ role, is not cowardly.

There IS no such thing as gauranteed non-combat duty in our military.  The “Needs of the Service” will outweigh whatever gaurantees one thinks they have to stay out of combat.

Hey there nobmadness.....thanks for putting me in my place....I didnt realize that I was sooooo damn misguided. You got me all wrong on here man. We are talking in the early 70’s here.....the guard and active duty roles were much different. They didnt even start really mobilizing the guard until this whole 911 thing blew up. It was a different world and a different military. Sorry you dont know shit or realize what im saying just because you wanna rail against someone that dosent fit your particular ideology. I was in the military too numb nuts and learned a thing or 2 myself. Get off your fucking horse.....you are just acting like an ass. Just because you were in the military dosent mean NESSACARILY that you know anything about combat. Humping all over the fucking desert with your weapons and shit....yeah you probaly do. Why dont you go back and look at what was said previously on this topic and next time dont just jump into some shit that you dont even know the whole background on. Ill just chalk your shitty rant up to combat stress or something.

I think Bush was pushed into his position. I do believe he actually wanted to see active service but they didn’t let him. Nobody could really blame him for that.

Ill just chalk your shitty rant up to combat stress or something.

Gee...how polite of you.

They didnt even start really mobilizing the guard until this whole 911 thing blew up. It was a different world and a different military.

Really?  I guess I’ll tell the guys in our unit who mobilized during Desert Storm and Kosovo (or all the other little conflicts) that they’re just a bunch of liars.  They’ll be glad to know you corrected them.

Sorry you dont know shit

Oh, you’re right.  I’m dumb compared to you, oh great one.  Please, help me!

you wanna rail against someone that dosent fit your particular ideology

You seem to know my ideology quite well.  Care to share it with me, since I choose not to express it on this site?  I merely detest your insulting and piss-poor style of argument, as opposed to all the others who agree with you, and can yet express themselves without looking completely ignorant.  I happen to LIKE the well-done posts of people I disagree with.  This board provides lots of them.

Just because you were in the military dosent mean NESSACARILY that you know anything about combat.

But some of us DO know something about combat, even in the Navy.  Unfortunately, you were just going to assume that Lee didn’t based soley on his branch of service.  After all, hard to learn while driving the bus, eh?

Humping all over the fucking desert with your weapons and shit....yeah you probaly do

Wow.  Is that supposed to be an insult.  Maybe I should somehow be ashamed of my job.....nah.

Why dont you go back and look at what was said previously on this topic and next time dont just jump into some shit that you dont even know the whole background on

I read the entire thing start to finish, every post, before i said a peep, bub.  But it does seem I’ve touched a nerve, as you didn’t bother to counter anything I said.

Gina, do you have children?  If you don’t, please, get yourself sterilized.  And if you do, kill them tonight, and spare them the abject mistery of growing up with a mother as monumentally ignorant as you are.

Don’t speak to women like that, Chum

Diggla in his infinite wisdon says:
Guard work is like a part time weekend job pretty much. Where it technically qualifies as “Military Service”, the Guard back then was hardly the place to go when you were serious about making a significant contribution to the war effort during Vietnam.

Did you know>>>>???

The Korean War was a turning point for the U.S. military establishment including the Air Guard. Some 45,000 Air Guardsmen, 80 percent of the force, were mobilized.Air Guardsmen flew 39,530 combat sorties and destroyed 39 enemy aircraft during the Korean War.

In 1961, President Kennedy activated a limited number of Reserve and Guard units during the Berlin crisis. In a show of American resolve, the President dispatched 11 ANG fighter squadrons to Europe.

On 3 May 1968 , F-100s from the 120th Tactical Fighter Squadron (Colorado) arrived at Phan Rang Air Base. By 1 June, all of the 120th’s pilots were flying combat missions. In the meantime, the 174th (Iowa), 188th (New Mexico), and the 136th (New York) had all deployed to Vietnam with their F-100s. In addition, 85 percent of the 355th Tactical Fighter Squadron—on paper a regular Air Force unit—were Air Guardsmen.

I could go on like this forever, but you get my point. The national guard has fought in every conflict since it’s inception. Joining a Guard unit ( especially during a war) is no sure bet you won’t see any action.

Leftoftheright says:

Paratrooper has completely changed my political perspective. The once powerful arguments of liberal politicians, political analysts, and activists have been reduced to ruin by simply restating them in a close ended question, followed with a supervenient, “No. That is a lie.”
Thank you… I’m sure i’ll enjoy my new idealogy, so long as liberals don’t discover this amazing method.

While I appreciate good sarcasm,( and that was pretty good) you seemed to have missed my point;

Diggla told a lie. I simply pointed it out. If Diggla wants to debate me on this, I’d be very happy to oblige.
Perhaps back in the forums section , where we have a little more room.

Let me requote for you his statement:

We know he (Bush) gives a minimal hoot about the troops; slashing veterans benefits, sending them into a war with no FACTUAL justification

There it was . Did you see it? He claims that Bush is or was slashing veterans benefits.

That is a lie. The benefits structure has changed a bit , and the co-pay went up a whopping 5 dollars, But on the other hand the overall VA budget was increased 3.4 Billion ( yes, that’s billion) which is more than 10% over the 2003 budget.

But don’t take my word for it, ( even though I’m a disabled veteran who actually receives disablity pay) try googling it, or if you are too stupid or lazy, ask me nicely and maybe I’ll post a few links for you.

There has been no slashing for veterans benefits whatsoever. 

<scription–drug benefit. The VA estimates this would cause an estimated 200,000 veterans to leave the system—voluntarily—because they have better benefits from other sources.</a> The drug benefit currently requires no payment to gain coverage, and a $7 co-payment for each one-month supply of prescription drugs. The Bush administration proposes to charge $21 per month for coverage, and to raise the co-payment to $15 per one-month supply of prescription medications.”

Itlooked perfect in the preview window and I even typed out the HTML myself… why cant i just post the links in the comments?

When leaving a comment, please use the formatting buttons. Do not past URLs into your comments or your comment is subject to editing and/or deletion regardless of content. If you want your comments to stay archived, make sure you follow these simple instructions

RTFD

There it was . Did you see it? He claims that Bush is or was slashing veterans benefits.

Um.....what about the Combat pay....that qualifies as a benifit does it not?

Um.....what about the Combat pay....that qualifies as a benifit does it not

Combat pay has not changed.

One thing that I think needs bringing up here is that flying those planes, yes, even in the Texas ANG, is not exaactly risk-free.  They’re orders of magnitude hotter and touchier to fly than an old Piper Cub, and there’s always a good chance of going SPLAT if you screw anything up. 

Compared to his predecessor, W is practically Audie Murphy.  As for the last months of his service...well, around taht time they were downsizing the NG pretty hard, and lost/missing records are not anything new.

well, around that time they were downsizing the NG pretty hard, and lost/missing records are not anything new.

You cannot brush of Dubya’s record by saying that they Texas ANG was downsizing, thats like blaming Clinton’s cheating on the fact that the Mrs, was going through menopause. a cop out.